3.b meeting September 18, 2008 • tem, I .
September 18, 2008
Special Joint Meeting—Scandia Planning Commission and City Council
The Scandia Planning Commission and the Scandia City Council met in a joint special meeting
on the above date. The following were in attendance: Planning Commission Chairman Chris
Ness and Commissioners Tom Krinke, Christine Maefsky, Susan Rodsjo and Peter Schwarz;
Mayor Dennis Seefeldt and Council Members Michael Harnetty, Donnette Yehie, Peter Crum
and Dolores Peterson. Staff present: Administrator Anne Hurlburt.
Chairman Ness called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. Planning Commissioners, City Council
members, staff, Planning Consultant JeanColemana McNulty.and membersty of the Comprehensive Plan
Committee in attendance (James Malmquist, Michele Mike White and Karen Schik
were introduced. He stated the purpose ofthemeeting,which to hold a public hearing on the
proposed 2008-2030 Comprehensive Plan for th eCityof Scandia, The hearing will be continued
to the October 7, 2008 regular Planning Commission meeting.
Jean Coleman of C.R. Planning presented an overview of the proposed comprehensive plan.
Chairman Ness called for questions from the Planning Commission and City
Councilmember Crum asked how much of theproposed (Village Neighborhood) is
currently undeveloped. Coleman answered thatthe map on p*118 and the chart on page 121
show that a maximum of 170 new dwellings could including potential resubdivision of
parcels larger than the git111%.,kize.
Councilmember Pete 'nasked if the f ormerT‘1itndsiie at Highways 95 and 97 could be
developed for use. Coleman answered4 hat it is not shown as commercial by the
future land use areas map.
Councilinember Crum asked if an open space ttiVias'itt , „
parcels in existing developments were assumed to
be potentially developed*the build-out analysis. Coleman answered that they were not
counted asbuildable land.
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Councilmember Peterson asked why 2/40 density was proposed for the Agricultural Core area?
Coleman responded that a lowet density was needed so that overall density in the city would
meet the MetropolitarfqnunA,licy of 1/10 acres maximum density. It also supports the goal
to protect agricultural ai...ap.:goal more strongly
on I articulated in this plan compared to the last
plan. Not all areas could be designated 1/ 0
, as some will be developed at greater densities
where clustering is encouraged. Ag Core areas could be developed at 4/40 using density bonuses
for protecting agricultural land.
Comprehensive Plan Committee member Schik stated that the density also helps protect rural
character.
Councilmember Peterson stated that she believes that Scandia's rural character has already been
lost.
September 19,2008
Scandia Planning Commission and City Council
Page 2 of 4
Comprehensive Plan Committee member Malmquist asked about the nature of the Metro
Council's involvement and how much clout they have. Coleman explained that the Met Council
provides guidance and will review city
plans to make sure they conform. They will look at the
city's calculations to see that the 10
maximum density is maintained. They have the authority
to hold up plan approval and to ask for changes, or take more forceful action if necessary to gain
compliance.
Councilmember Crum asked Coleman to clarify whether 1/10 is a minimum or a maximum.
Coleman said it was an average, maximum density for the entire city at build-out.
Commissioner Schwarz commented that the Met Council decided years ago that Scandia will not
be connected to the Metropolitan Sewer System, which has desirable consequences for the city's
rural character. Big box stores and similar development cannot occur in this area. They do have
jurisdiction to decide those things.
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Chairman Ness opened the hearing to the public.
Charlie Ellis, 19860 Olinda Trail, asked if the previous +eitensive plan met the 1/10 density
standard. When will the zoning maf4latIttp to the Comprehensive Plan map? Hurlburt
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responded that the city will have 9 malts 044t1Hial adoption to bring zoning regulations into
conformance with the plan.
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Ellis stated his objection0 ieuttOt:Rig.density in the 4 4 6704,,,,, .areas to increase density in the
Village Neighborho‘*ea. This will cause J,t,Vtope'aN*ho have farmed their whole
lives and force them tz!ollitrn if theycannot sell their land.
hardship
l,t„„ 'k'k
fitr*er%said ' ' the former
os TrailsTnd site at Highways 95 and 97. He
Jeff Fusco,;*';, ,,,„ , it "I.
AV sitebecause purchased lisw 'zoned commercial, operated a successful business there, and is
, ,
No
still p*og taxes. He said it 41*tive benefit' t the community asked why the land use
map would',Ite changed fro ,Oomm&4to General Rural.
Itki
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Commissioner Kodsj o commented that this corner is a critical entrance to Scandia, and there was
a concern that it couldbecome s",ething that would not reflect the city's rural character. The
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owner could ask that the plan he changed for a specific project that would reflect rural character.
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Fusco asked if the city could just say no to any project, such as a gas station. Mayor Seefeldt
responded that the city would have to allow uses such as a gas station if they are allowed in the
other rural commercial nodes.
Fusco said that the plan change would take quite a bit away from him and the property would be
worthless. He said he currently has no plans to develop the property.
Councilmember Harnetty asked when the Trails End restaurant had burned down. Fusco
responded that it was five years ago.
September 19,2008
Scandia Planning Commission and City Council
Page 3 of 4
Karla Krick, 12620 181st St. N. asked who was changing the zoning, is it the Met Council? Ness
responded that if there is a zoning change it would be made by the City. Krick asked who drew
the map. Krinke responded that the Comprehensive Plan Committee worked with the consultant
to prepare the map.
Krick said the City should consider the age of the population, and that the school is the biggest
draw to the community. She asked how many people with school-age children could live here if
the city requires 10-acre lots. Ness said that the city allows smaller(2.5 acre) lots in cluster
developments. She asked what is allowed in the general rural area. Krinke read the description
from the plan.
Dan Booren, 11522 Mayberry Trail, said that he likes the higher density in the Village Center.
He said the Trails End map change seems like a "taking".
Booren said that traditional agriculture will not continue to exist due to the economic
environment. No farms have been sold for traditional agriculture in the last 20 years. Before the
previous comprehensive plan was written,his land was planned for 8 units per 40 acres. When
the plan was changed to 4/40, he lost half of his development fights. He would lose half again
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with the proposed 2/40 plan. He said this is unacceptable.
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Linda Capra, Forest Lake, said she used10 liNTjRScandia andquestioned how long the Planning
Commissioners have been a part of Scandia. Sife*t4most people do not know what Scandia
was and why people came here. Planningqpmmissi*mcinbefS,responded by explaining how
long they have been connected 4ith Scandia.
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Councilmember Ham that Committee worked hard to define rural character, and
recognize that we can't turn back the clock. The common idea was open space. Density needs
to be controlled to keep opeii$Pkr4A4%,,
Boreal said that people who did not subdivide, Or had a stewardship philosophy, would be
punished financially to provide the desired viewscapes. He asked if the high priority natural
resources areas were defined by resources or the desire to protect views.
Coleman explained that the Committee did not explicitly consider views as a criterion for the
natural resources overlay. Some natural resources will compete with each other for priority for
protection. The plan identifies the resources so the city can make well-infolined choices.
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Commission Rodsjo said that the map will be used as a tool when people develop their land.
Coleman said the plan will raise a "red flag" to think about sensitive resources.
Committee member Malmquist said that the public was very involved in the plan. Housing for
lifecycle needs was considered, and that housing is needed so that young couples are able to live
here.
Capra said that she is happy that the commission members are connected to Scandia.
September 19,2008
Scandia Planning Commission and City Council
Page 4 of 4
Fusco asked what the process is next. Can the plan be changed?
Coleman explained that the hearing will be continued on October 7. The consultants will
summarize all the issues for that meeting. The Planning Commission can include specific
changes in their recommendation to the Council, who has the final say on the plan. Mayor
Seefeldt stated that there may likely be a work session with the Planning Commission and
Council to finalize the plan in mid-October, before it is approved.
Ellis asked if the old plan met the Metropolitan Council's density goals, why the massive change
in the core agricultural density, which will hit the big landowners hard?
Seefeldt said that as an agriculturalist for the last 40 years,he agrees that agriculture has changed
but there is still a future for alternative or specialty agriculture.
Coleman said that the Metropolitan Council is reviewing plans differently than they did 10 years
ago, and that density calculations must assume fidl build-out at the maximum density including
all possible bonuses. They used to consider a range, and market realities: now they just consider
the maximum even though it may not be logical.
Seefeldt said that the current plan di ."1,rneet the Met density in many areas, and
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some areas were retained in 5-acre densities.
Committee member McNulty pointed out II 4/40 iS01, kallowedirt the Ag Core area if policies
to further the long-term2vision of plan ue'met. Ness pointed out that the conservation design
criteria became mucitittcter since the last p114 and ii is mutlijiarder to get 100% of the density
bonus. Seefeldt pointed out the density bonus is not an entitlement since the city adopted more
detailed criteria.,Howevekng,neowlyek,Tmentive been reviewed under the new criteria.
'44-40' A14,44.44
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Krick a4pd''' aiiiA: %%
Met, Council. Hnr11641:txplained that the Metropolitan Council is a
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regional government Wilitt'rnembakappointed by the governor, and explained their role in local
comprehensive plans.
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The meeting adjourned at 8:50$4n.
Respectfully submitted;
,ce*?
Anne Hurlburt
Administrator/ Clerk