4.a) John Lindell re: Snow and Ice Control Policy, Mailbox in the Right of Way Meeting Date: 05/10/2011
Agenda Item: � ��
City Council Agenda Report
City of Scandia
14727 209�' St. North
Scandia, MN 55073 (651) 433-2274
Action Requested: At the request of John Lindell, 11240 218th St. N., review the Snow
and Ice Control Policy as it relates to his mailbox in the right-of-way.
Deadline/Timeline: N/A
Background: • Mr. Lindell has requested that the City replace the post of his
mailbox, alleging it was damaged by a city snowplow.
• Several staff inembers and the Mayor have reviewed this request
and found that there is no evidence that it was damaged by
physical contact with the city's equipment. His request was
denied, and he disagrees with the decision.
• A copy of some of the correspondence on this issue is attached. It
includes an excerpt from the policy and a photo of the mailbox
taken by city staff
• Additional photos taken by the Mayor have also been provided.
Recommendation: The Council should review this issue and determine whether the
policy has been correctly applied.
Attachments/ • E-mails to and from John Lindell
Materials provided: . Photos by Mayor Simonson (5/2/11)
Contact(s):
Prepared by: Anne Hurlburt, Administrator
(Lindell mailbox)
Page 1 of 1
OS/02/11
Anne Hurlburt
From: Randali Simonson [r.simonson@ci.scandia.mn.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 3:14 PM
To: 'Lindell, John'
Subject: RE: mailbox
Mr. Lindell I have taken many photos for use at the meeting. You're on the agenda,the policy is in place, but this
agenda item is going to be about your box at this time. So it is up to you if you wish to be there that evening to plead
your case.
Randall
From: Lindell, John [mailto:John.Lindell@state.mn.us]
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 2:09 PM
To: 'Randall Simonson'
Subject: RE: mailbox
If the issue is whether my mailbox was damaged then someone needs to confirm that before it is addressed by the Council. The
picture was taken from the east and the damage is on the west.
If the issue is the policy I would recommend it be rescinded since there doesn't appear to be any intent to comply with it.
From: Randall Simonson [mailto:r.simonson@ci.scandia.mn.us]
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 12:32 PM
To: Lindell, John
Subject: RE: mailbox
Mr. Lindell,you will have your chance before the Council. I am bringing this to the council on the agenda at the May 10`n
work session. If you wish to address the council,this is your chance, meeting starts at 6:30PM.
Randall
_
From: Lindell, John [mailto:John.Lindell@state.mn.us]
Sent: Monday, May 02, 2011 8:55 AM
To: 'Randall Simonson'
Subject: RE: mailbox
Randy,afrer reading your email and others I went and looked at my mailbox and it was indeed hit and damaged.
If need be someone should look at it again because they missed it last time. The damage is on the west side. It looks
like the impact was made against the black plastic box which then damaged the mailbox.
I don't appreciate Anne inventing her interpretation of the policy requiring a Direct Hit as she puts it.
The relevant language is:mallbOxes that
were properly installed and located, which were damaged by physical contact with city
equipment will be the responsibility of the city.
I hope this resolves this.
jl
From: Randall Simonson [mailto:r.simonson@ci.scandia.mn.us]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:58 AM
To: Lindell, John
Subject: RE:
�
Mr. Lindell according to the current Snow and Ice policy that was established during your rein as council
member and reviewed as recently as February 2011 it states in section 11 the following.
11. Mailboxes and personal property in rights-of way
Snow plow operators will make every effort to remove snow so as to provide access to
mailboxes for the Postal Service. However, it is not possible to provide perfect conditions
and minimize damage to mailboxes with the size and type of equipment the city operates.
Therefore, the final cleaning adjacent to mailboxes is the responsibility of each resident.
oming into contact with a mailbox is a common obstacle snowplow operators face during
storm activities. The city will conduct a review of each mailbox incident to determine
whether the city will replace or provide reimbursement for the mailbox. Only mailboxes that
were properly installed and located, which were damaged by physical contact with city
equipment will be the responsibility of the city. The city will not be responsible for damage
to mailboxes or support posts caused by snow or ice coming into contact with the mailbox.
If the city is responsible for damage to a mailbox, the city will replace the mailbox with a
standard size, non-decorative metal mailbox and replace the support post as necessary with a
metal swing-arm style support post,both installed by the city. The city will not reimburse
the mailbox owner for the replacement of the mailbox and post by others. The Public Works
Deparhnent may provide a recommended design for mailbox supports and promote its use by
cit residents to reduce damage from snowplowing operations.
The city will not be liable for damage to fences, sprinklers, signs, trees, shrubs, landscape
materials, lighting, decorative items or any other objects placed in the public right-of-way.
Except as otherwise provided in any license or franchise agreement, the city will only be
responsible for damage to utility pedestals and transformers within the right-of-way resulting
from direct contact by City snow and ice removal equipment. City liability shall be limited to
actual costs to repair the damages as documented by invoices submitted to the City by the
utility.
According to your own statement made in an email
From: Lindell, John jmailto:John.Lindell@state.mn.usl
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2011 10:48 AM
To: 'Anne Hurlburt'
Subject: RE: Some items
Its not the policYI have problems with. The post is fairly new- that will be evident when Steve takes a look at it.
I put up a new mailbox three years ago.
I have also had the opportunity to see the photo that was taken of your wood structured mail box. If this is not
your mail box then perhaps there is a valid argument.
2
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From the photo it appears that a lighter constructed wood mail box was not damaged. Considering the direction
the plow would have to be approaching, your plastic paper box was not damaged of which should have taken
the greater impact of a plow blade. I don't live along a city road but I do a county road. My 3 boxes are
mounted on a post just like yours. I too have had my box tipped back as yours is and have had to straighten it
up again. I have seen the force of snow coming from the end of a plow and have witnessed up close and
personal the damage that heavy snow can cause.
In closing, I agree with your conclusion that the policy is not in dispute and that you don't have any problems
with the policy and I agree with you. So in saying that, I have a sworn responsibility to stand with the policy
and the collective unanimous decision of the city council's review of said policy. As a citizen you still have a
right to address the full council on this concern,but the council has a legal responsibility to stand behind its
policies discussed and voted upon.
Respectfully
Randall F. Simonson, Mayor
City of Scandia
From: Lindell, John [mailto:John.Lindell@state.mn.us]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:47 AM
3
To: 'Steve Thorp'
Cc: 'r.simonson@ci.scandia.mn.us'
Subject:
You may as well have a policy that no posts will be replaced since that is clearly your objective. Its stupid to make
these artificial distinctions like tbe mail box wasn't damaged so it wasn't the snowplow. Snow does not break new 4 inch posts,
snowplows do.
I am copying the the mayor to get a final decision on this.
J�
From: Steve Thorp [mailto:s.thorp@ci.scandia.mn.us]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:42 PM
To: Lindell, John
Cc: 'Anne Hurlburt'
Subject: RE: Mailbox post
Yes, our policy is that we physically hit your mailbox with our plow. Like I stated, this was a very bad year
with heavy snow being a problem for a lot of mailboxes. This policy is very common among snow plow
operations at almost any jurisdictional level.
When we hit mailboxes, the upper part of the plow and the bottom of the plow hits the mailbox simultaneously.
It is physically impossible to take the post out at the bottom without hitting the box with the upper part of the
plow. We know when we hit mailboxes because there is very little left, for the most part, we destroy mailboxes
when we hit them.
If I did not argue the replacing of mailboxes, the City would have had to replace around 100 mailboxes this last
year. We did not physically hit one mailbox this last year. I have spoke with the County snow plow
coordinator and he said they had a similar amount of complaints regarding mailboxes being hit. The drivers did
not hit the mailboxes; the snow is just so heavy that when it leaves the plow blade it has a tremendous amount
of force behind it.
I am sorry but I can not replace your post without replacing all the others that were knocked over by snow. We
have to stick by the policy that we only replace mailboxes that were physically hit by the plow.
Thank you,
Steve Thorp
From: Lindell, John [mailto:]ohn.Lindell@state.mn.us]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 3:18 PM
4
To: 'Steve Thorp'
Cc: 'Anne Hurlburt'
Subject: RE: Mailbox post
If you had pulled up on the post you would have seen that the post was broken just below ground level. As the picture shows this a
fairly new and very sturdy post.
It took a significant hit by the snowployw to break the post. In my twelve years of living in Scandia l have never before had my
mailbox knocked over by snow or
snowplows and they haven't been the swing arm type. This mail box and post were put in three years ago.
When you say physically hit do you mean the plow has to contact the mailbox? That would mean that there wasn't any snow so why
would the snowplow even
be there.
This is getting to be a pretty rediculous response to deny the damage done by the plow.
Again,the mail box had to take a pretty significant hit to break the post that I put in recently.
I would appreciate reconsideration of your decision.
From: Steve Thorp [mailto:s.thorp@ci.scandia.mn.us]
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 1:36 PM
To: Lindell, John
Cc: 'Anne Hurlburt'
Subject: Mailbox post
John,
I apologize for not getting back to you right away on this. Jeff went out last week and looked at your mailbox
post. He said it was leaned over which would be from the pile of snow hitting it as it comes off the plow blade.
The very wet snow comes off the plow blade in large clumps and this winter a lot of mailbox posts were not
able to withstand the force of the snow.
We only replace mailboxes that we physically hit. We recommend (as does almost all plowing operations) a
swing arm design mailbox post so when we get the heavy wet snow the post can withstand the force of the snow
coming off of the plow.
5
I am sorry but when we hit a mailbox it is usually completely destroyed and those are the only ones that we will
replace. Looking at the attached picture and from what Jeff said I don't believe we hit this mailbox.
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6
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