7-12-05 incorpJuly 12, 2005
Incorporation Committee Informational Meeting
Blair Joselyn started the meeting by introducing the people who helped prepare the information
being presented: members of the Incorporation Committee, Carol Joselyn, office staff, and
consultant Jessie Hart. Mr. Joselyn stated the meeting was not to persuade a position, but to
present information to Scandia residents as part of the Committee's process of coming up with a
recommendation for the Town Board. This public information meeting is the second phase of a
three-phase plan the Committee is following. The first phase consisted of reviewing data
gathered as a result of trying to answer 49 questions that the Committee came up with in their
investigation of the question of incorporation. The third phase would be to come up with a
recommendation for the Town Board. The Town Board is not sure the next step they will take
after receiving the Committee's recommendation. Starting with 100 questions generated by
Committee members, the 49 remaining questions and answers were group into six categories:
Financial, Services/Control as a City, Procedure for Incorporation, Experience of Other
Communities with Incorporation, Relationships with Other Municipalities, and Miscellaneous. A
fifteen -page booklet was then prepared to present the Issues/Questions/Answers of
Incorporation.
David Hebert, Township Attorney and Committee member, presented the legal issues involved
in incorporation.. Hebert outlined the history of a rural township with the electors have the
control over town business and setting the annual budget. Later as state statutes changed things,
Scandia became an urban township, which gave more power to the town board, but the electors
still vote on the budget as presented by town staff. If Scandia were to become a city, then the
electors would no longer approve the budget. Also, the mayor and council members would be
elected positions, whereas now the town board supervisors elect their chairman. Mr. Hebert then
covered what is necessary to initiate proceeding with incorporation; either a petition of 100
property owners, or a resolution by the Town Board. Either the petition or resolution would need
to give a name to the municipality (Scandia, New Scandia), state reasons for seeking
incorporation, a map of the area, parties to be served and adjoining municipalities. Then the
procedure of actually filing was covered. The cost of the public hearing would be born by the
petitioner, in this case, the Town Board. He also outlined the basis for an administrative law
judge's decision as to whether or not to allow incorporation. Mr. Hebert stated that no
referendum could be held, as the Town Board has no statutory authority to spend taxpayers
dollars on an election not covered by state statutes.
Jessie Hart, Springsted, Inc., presented the fiscal aspects of incorporation. Ms. Hart showed
population estimates indicating a population of 5,016 in the year 2017. Current population is
3,929. Scandia would have to have a population of 5,000 to be eligible for state road funds of
approximately $225,000. Scandia presently receives approximately $23,000 through County road
aid and a gravel tax, which would be eliminated if Scandia became a city. However, the state
also has a pool of money for which Scandia, could apply for construction of new roads, but not
maintenance of roads.
Ms. Hart covered any changes in governmental services. Law enforcement, fire protection,
building inspector/code enforcement, septic system oversight, street maintenance, and
sewer/water services would not change. However, as a city Scandia would be responsible for
prosecution services and collecting fines. Fine revenues are anticipated to cover the cost of
July 12, 2005
bL,zio
vptr-a-tinnn Information Meeting
Page 2
providing prosecution services. 7WRT-1 -
levied. t change would be r! and zoning services. The County provides
planning services free of charge to the township at the cost of a %-time employee. The County
would terminate this relationship and wouldn't contract with us. Fees would not cover all new
planning services, so the township would have to cover the extra cost.
at a cost ot-5Zti11,4,R1, an an increase in support sTM—TW7h,,1Tf,"1,T1uU-1g u-vo
for $34,000. Currently, the clerk spends 40% to 50% of her time on zoning.
Q. Dan Willius, 23 577 Quentin, said having local control is a significant justification for
incorporation and a fundamental issue. But are we ready once County assistance is eliminated.
Mr. Willius believes the incorporation process should be delayed until the Town Board can
assure residents that the town's ordinances and zoning are in place.
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Mr. Hebert intejected that Scandia is more restrictive than the County in some zoning. Mr.
Willius was not assured.
Q. Pat Redig, 16099 209th St., asked if local control could not be accomplished with more
frestrictive ordinances. Is there a fight with the County?
A. Joselyn indicated Scandia. has a good working relationship with the County. 'fhe town and
county don't agree on all issues, but generally have a good relationship. Kevin Nickelson poi
out if Scandia wanted to be less restrictive; we couldn't do that as a township.
Q. Judy Rydeen, 14841 Old Marine Trail, said the danger of annexation was misrepresented, and-
iliat the west part of the township is in danger. Mrs. Rydeen also said there are 2,500 registered
voters, not 2,300.
Q. Bill Clapp, 19555 Quinnell, stated the town can zone more protectively now and that it is
true that incorporation will ensure local control — we can already do that. Mr. Clapp likes two
levels of government for CUPs, rezone, variances and the protection provided by the County.
wouldn't have such good ordinances without the County. Mr. Clapp asked if we would need o
July 12, 2005
Incorporation Information Meeting
Page 3
own courtroom and judges for prosecuting petty misdemeanors. He also asked how the town
would find the pulse of the people on the issue.
A. Hebert indicated the town would provide the prosecuting attorney and all cases would be
handled at the courthouse in Stillwater. Joselyn indicated the town is asking for town input now
with this meeting.
Q. Curt Hadland, 15280 Pilar Road, stated that the presentation did not address the intangibles,
like why people live out here, the rural quality of the township. There were no models of how the
town may change in the future with zoning and codes. at is the destiny we are trying to
protect by incorporating? Taxes are not a main concern, but quality of life is. at are other
townships and cities doing? For more balance, developmental models need to be considered.
What would incorporation look like for our township?
Q. Rob Jensen, 12988 182"d St., would like to see citizens given more avenues to the process
such as meetings on cable TV. He would like to see more information such as profiles of
expenses for Grant and other cities before and after incorporation, not just what they felt about
expenses. Mr. Jensen also said the home profile of $227,000 was not very accurate and would
like to see impacts on taxes for homes up to $1,000,000.
A. Hart indicated that the average home value in Scandia of $227,000 was taken from the
County's January 2004 tax assessment data. Joselyn said page 8, question 29 answered expense
experience of other township that became incorporated.
Q. Tom Obst asked if a straw ballot could be done tonight to see which way the people wanted to
go.
Q. Wyman Metzler asked why couldn't we have a referendum to vote on this.
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Town Board cannot spend taxpayers dollars on such an election.
Q. Dave Colby, 15195 240th St., asked how much it would be to hire a prosecutor. He also asked
what the County has blocked which Scandia wanted to do. He would like to see a straw pole of
the committee and Town Board to see what they wanted to do.
A. Joselyn said the Committee has not decided on its recommendation yet and the Town Board
has not yet received the committee's recommendation. Nickelson said the County has refused
some variances that the township granted. The township had to go before the County to build the
Hawkinson Business Park as the County was against having businesses in Scandia at that time.
Nickelson said the County does do good planning.
July 12, 2005
Incorporation Information Meeting
Page I.
Q. Don Hogle, 21509 Lofton Ave., thinks it is inevitable that Scandia will become a city, but
timing is a factor. Would it be best now or closer to 2017, when population reaches 5,000, or
somewhere in between? Would also like to know why White Bear Township has not been
annexed or incorporated. Why do they think being a township is better?
A. Joselyn said that the city of White Bear has tried to annex the township and failed. After
talking to the clerk for two hours, there doesn't appear to be any one reason and they like it the
way it is. Denmark, Linwood and Wyoming townships are all considering incorporation because
of a threat. Scandia is the only one without a threat, but has been advised by numerous state
administration people not to wait for a threat.
Q. Ross Brunfelt, 15901 Scandia Trail, said layers of government could be a good thing to
provide checks and balances, but is mostly bureaucratic. He is for incorporation, but thinks we
don't have long-term planning and tbinkin . Would we lose our small town feel? Maybe we
should look at larger lot sizes, as housing will come. He thinks we should incorporate to retain
what we've done.
Q. Susan Miles, 232xl St. Croix Trail, appreciates all the work and information. Stated Grant
services provided by the County versus the politicization of the town planning process. The
County would be less subject to local preferences and provide good professional advice. She
would like to see a comparison of Afton to Scandia. The Afton prosecutor shows up when he
feels it appropriate. Scandia has a lot of traffic crime. People want to get things resolved right
away, but can't because the prosecutor isn't there. Also, fines don't cover the cost of a
prosecutor and some are not ever collected. What is going to happen to litigation costs? Would
we get involved in lobbying?
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fine revenue and it was a wash. Grant said the same. Grant taxes went way up because they let
their road deteriorate and needed to get them fixed, not because of incorporation. Grant's last
town board chairman and first mayor, Gary Erickson, came and talked to the Committee.
Q. Wayne Schmidt, 21060 Olinda Trail, said they had to fight the County to get the Scandia
Housing. The town people got together and built sewer and water systems to support the housing
and uptown businesses. Mr. Schmidt said it was all well and good to say "If it ain't t
fix it", but asked if you would rather gather hay with a horse and wagon, or a combine. He does
believe there is a threat to the western part of the township. Maybe not how, but it could happen
fast. Mr. Schmidt commended the Committee on doing a good job. The township has handled
their own problems in the past and can in the future. As for a straw vote, generally people who
are against something show up, and those for it stay home g it's a done deal.
July 12, 20CH
Incorporation Information Meetij M-14
Pagel
A. Bruce Swenson has been hearing from a lot of people. There is an overlay of power at the
County level. The County used to do building permits/inspections and eliminated it as well as
some planning services. The County is slowly divesting themselves of the services discussed.
He would hate to see Scandia go the way of Wyoming Township.
card notice of the meetindid not mention y vote, so a
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straw vote is not appropriate as a lot of people left after the presentation.
A. Joselyn called for a straw vote to vote on whether or not to take a straw poll of "For"
"Against", or "Undecided" regarding incorporation.
32 for a straw poll
44 against a straw poll
Respectfully submitted,
Colleen Firkus
Planning Commission Secretary