07-01-2015 Work SessionJuly 1, 2015
The City Council held a Work Session meeting on the above date. The following were present:
Mayor Randall Simonson, Council members Bob Hegland, Dan Lee, Chris Ness, and Jim
Schneider. Staff present: City Engineer Ryan Goodman, Fire Chief Mike Hinz and Deputy Clerk
Brenda Eklund.
Mayor Randall Simonson called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m.
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA
Ness, seconded by Lee, moved to approve the agenda as presented. The motion carried 5-0.
LOG HOUSE LANDING IMPROVEMENT PROJECT
Mayor Simonson introduced the discussion of the Log House Landing Improvement Project by
referencing the site visit and joint meeting with the Carnelian -Marine -St. Croix Watershed in
May 2013 in which paving 205th Street to the river landing was presented as an option to control
erosion and runoff into the St. Croix River. The City was awarded a State Park Road Account
grant in 2014 from the DNR/DOT to cover 50% of the costs of improving the Log House
Landing roadway. The City and Watershed would equally share in funding the remaining half of
the costs. Simonson explained that the recent action of the Watershed to withdraw their support
for paving the roadway changes the dynamics of moving forward with the project. He
recognized and thanked the citizen group for the information they had gathered on alternative
road surfaces that would be presented to the Council at this meeting and the following motion
was made:
Simonson, seconded by Hegland, moved to direct staff to inform the DNR that the City is
turning down the grant funds and to make no improvements to 205th Street east of
Quinnell Avenue.
Council member Ness stated that the citizen group was told they would have a chance to present
their research on alternative surfaces and the Council should acknowledge their information.
Council member Lee said that Ness has a point and the motion also has a point.
Council member Schneider said he'd like to hear what they have to say but doesn't want to dwell
on the issue since the City is tied without the money being there and may end up leaving the road
as it is.
Council member Hegland said the dynamics have changed and the project is much different than
envisioned at the beginning and agreed with the Mayor's position.
Simonson called for a roll call vote on the above motion. Lee — yes; Ness — no; Schneider —
yes; Hegland — yes; Simonson — yes. The motion carried 4-1.
Pam Plowman -Smith explained that the information they gathered on bound aggregate may be a
benefit for other gravel roads in Scandia and said they could make a brief presentation by
July 1, 2015
Scandia City Council
Page 2 of 4
showing a video featuring gravel expert Steve Monlux. Following the video in which Monlux
recommended using bound aggregate (containing clay) treated with calcium chloride with water
diversion channels and two sedimentation ponds along the roadway, Smith noted that the
Watershed would participate in funding 50% of this alternative surfacing option, estimated at a
total cost of $162,000.
Watershed Board member Steve Kromiller stated that modeling data indicated that the amount of
runoff was not as great as first estimated and they see this alternative to paving as a more
reasonable and cost effective solution in which the Watershed could partner on.
Mayor Simonson stated that a new Public Works Director will be starting his position this month
and a discussion of modifications to 205th Street could continue once he is on board and up to
speed on the roadway.
Council member Ness asked for Engineer Goodman's opinion of bound aggregate. Goodman
said that the gravel used now is modified with clay content but all surface materials have an
optimum moisture point and are susceptible to erosion at some point. He recommended if bound
aggregate were used, to hold off on constructing overflow ponds and use a swale first to
determine the extent of water runoff.
Kronmiller stated that re -grading the roadway this spring did help somewhat, but to perform
properly it should get to a 4% slope. It will take additional work to get to this point.
Simonson noted the difference in precipitation amounts between Beltrami County, where this
product is being used, and Washington County, which gets significantly more rain. Kronmiller
stated that the amount of chlorides can be adjusted to help the clay bind to the aggregate in this
case.
Christine Maefsky asked what the next step would be. Simonson stated that once the new Public
Works Director is on board and working with Engineer Goodman, any modifications to the road
would be discussed at a public meeting, but said he could give no sense of timing on this.
HIRE PUBLIC WORKS DIRECTOR
Mayor Simonson reported that Dave Williams had accepted the City's offer as Public Works
Director and had passing results on required testing, although awaiting results of the drug test.
Simonson, seconded by Ness, moved to hire Dave Williams at a salary of $58,437 effective
July 6, 2015 dependent on passing the drug test.
Council member Schneider stated that he wants to go on record that Williams was not his pick.
Simonson called for a vote on the above motion. The motion carried 4-1, with Schneider
opposed.
July 1, 2015
Scandia City Council
Page 3 of 4
COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS DISCUSSION AND FIRE DEPARTMENT REPORTS FOR
EQUIPMENT (COUNCIL MEMBER HEGLAND)
Council member Hegland introduced his proposal for gathering more information and
establishing a process for a cost -benefit analysis for future capital expenditures. He explained
that he eventually would like this implemented in every department. Hegland provided an
outline of data to be collected such as how many members responded, mileage and time spent at
the call, total gallons of water used, was mutual aid involved, should chargeback be pursued, etc.
Fire Chief Hinz explained that a replacement schedule is followed that conforms to NFPA
requirements. Engine and tanker equipment is typically replaced at 20 -year intervals and spaced
apart for funding purposes. Hinz said that trucks are part of the city's public safety policy and
not analyzed through a cost -benefit situation — the department does not exist to make money. He
said he doesn't see the benefit in filling out pages of information when a truck will still need
replacing at 20 years.
Hegland explained that knowing how many water runs are made on a call could lead to needing a
larger tanker. Hinz said that larger trucks could not be used due to limitations of driveway sizes
in Scandia.
Hinz asked that the Council not make their jobs harder by micromanaging the department and
put more trust in their department heads. Collecting this data is basing it on past history and
does not look at what the long-term needs should be. Hinz said that charging communities for
mutual aid would not be a good practice. Forest Lake's cost to respond to Scandia's calls could
be quite expensive if that were implemented.
Hegland said that budgets are being challenged these days and charging for services is in the
future. Calculating the cost of each fire run is important information to have. Hinz said that they
have lowered their budget every year and run an efficient department. The City has a
responsibility to provide fire services, and if it comes down to contracting for this service, the
costs would at least double. Hinz said the Council leaders seem to be putting more stress on
their followers which is pushing members of the department to retire. The population is not
growing and recruitment for new members is not keeping up with retirements.
Council member Lee said he was in favor of getting this data and it could be used to provide the
citizens more information. Tracking the numbers could give them an idea of how calls unfold.
This process allows for a practical approach in making decisions.
Council member Schneider said he would not be in favor of adding more work for the
department and wouldn't find this information helpful in getting to a decision on equipment
replacement.
Mayor Simonson suggested a meeting with Chief Hinz, Hegland and himself to further discuss
data gathering and report back at a future meeting. Council member Lee asked if staff could be
asked to research what other fire departments provide for information. Simonson proposed that
Lee could conduct that research with neighboring cities and the League.
July 1, 2015
Scandia City Council
Page 4 of 4
FOREST LAKE CABLE COMMISSION UPDATE (MAYOR SIMONSON)
Mayor Simonson, Council representative on the Cable Commission, provided information on a
proposal that Scandia take over the financial books from Columbus due to conflicts their staff is
having.
The Cable Commission currently pays Columbus $3,600 per year to handle the books. Scandia's
staff has indicated that this could be easily implemented and not burdensome or intensive.
Council members were in agreement that this would be acceptable as long as staff is agreeable.
The switch could occur at the first of the year.
Mayor Simonson and Cable representative Dan Swanson reported on the clean audit the
Commission recently received. Simonson questioned if there is a value to having Scandia
remain with the Commission so that he has a sense of continued support among the Council.
All agreed that Scandia should continue to be involved even though only a small percentage of
the City has access to cable. Council member Lee noted that coverage is a big concern and
having representation could push for an increase in growth. Simonson stated that the
Commission is continuing to apply for grant funding and pursuing installation in the Wyldewood
Acres development.
Mr. Swanson described the positive improvements he has seen in the 1 %2 years he has been
involved with the Commission and encouraged the Council to tour the station operations.
ADJOURNMENT
Ness, seconded by Schneider, moved to adjourn the meeting. The motion carried 5-0.
The meeting adjourned at 8:05 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Brenda Eklund
Deputy Clerk