4. a) Draft Minutes 12-06-2022 Planning Commission
December 6, 2022
The Scandia Planning Commission held their regular monthly meeting on the above date with
modifications. The meeting was conducted in-person and virtually over an electronic platform.
All participants who joined the meeting remotely could hear each other and contribute to
discussions.
Chair Jan Hogle called the meeting to order at 6:03 p.m. The following were in attendance:
Commissioners Laszlo Fodor, Jan Hogle, Kirsten Libby, Mike Lubke, Perry Rynders. Staff
present: City Planner Evan Monson, City Administrator Ken Cammilleri, Interim City
Administrator Anne Hurlburt, and City Clerk Brenda Eklund. City Council member Jerry Cusick
was also present.
PUBLIC FORUM
There were no public comments.
APPROVAL OF AGENDA, MINUTES
Chair Hogle added staff introductions to the agenda, to follow approval of the agenda. Rynders,
second by Libby, moved to approve the agenda as amended. Motion carried unanimously.
Administrator Cammilleri is ending employment with the city on December 31, 2022. Anne
Hurlburt introduced herself as the interim city administrator until the next city administrator is
hired. Hurlburt was the first Scandia City Administrator hired in 2006, and retired in 2012.
In October 2022, the City Council voted to contract with Bolton & Menk for planning services.
TJ Hofer, Bolton & Menk, introduced himself as the new city planner beginning in January
2023.
Rynders, second by Lubke, moved to approve the November 1, 2022 minutes as presented.
Motion carried unanimously.
Staff briefed the Planning Commission about their discretionary authority in analyzing zoning
matters and how applications must fit the goals of the city’s comprehensive plan.
PUBLIC HEARING: CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT FOR A DETACHED ACCESSORY
STRUCTURE AND ADMINISTRATIVE PERMIT FOR AN ACCESSORY DWELLING
UNIT AT 23183 MEADOWBROOK AVENUE NORTH. MIRA AND MICHAEL
NORCROSS, APPLICANTS. PC RESOLUTION NO. 2022-15
Mira and Michael Norcross are proposing to construct a detached accessory structure that would
be 5,758 square feet in size on the southwest portion of their property at 23183 Meadowbrook
Avenue. The property is 19.45 acres, which allows for up to three accessory structures totaling
5,000 square feet per Table 153.200.030-20 in the Unified Development Code. The code allows
for an exception through a Conditional Use Permit to exceed the number and square footage
thresholds of up to 25% of the total square footage.
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December 6, 2022
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Planner Monson presented an evaluation of the request. The middle portion of the parcel has a
DNR identified natural environment lake which requires a 200-foot setback and defines the
property to be within a shoreland management overlay. As part of the proposed structure, the
applicants are also proposing to use portions of the building for an Accessory Dwelling Unit
(ADU) for family members to stay while visiting. ADU’s are permitted within the Rural
Residential-General (RR-G) district, and are a conditional use in the Shoreland zone.
Planner Monson explained that the property has one detached shed, and the applicants are
proposing to exceed the allowed 5,000 square feet threshold by 19%. Monson’s staff report
included CUP criteria and findings that concluded with a recommendation to approve the
request. Conditions of approval included that Watershed and grading permits are required, and
the grading plan include a tree replacement plan. A resolution with findings and conditions was
prepared.
Chair Hogle opened the public hearing at 6:24 p.m.
Applicant Mira Norcross stated that she had no comments to make but is available to answer any
questions.
There were no other comments and the hearing was closed.
Commissioner Rynders asked for clarification that the recommendation is approving a building
5,758 square feet in size, and not extra square feet up to 25% of the threshold. Planner Monson
confirmed this condition. Commissioner Rynders asked about the septic system for the proposed
ADU. Monson stated that ordinance language requires an ADU to connect to an appropriately
sized system, which can include a connection to an existing system. Washington County
reviewed the existing septic system and determined that it is sized appropriately for the ADU to
connect. Monson said that the request meets the ordinance regulations for an ADU.
Commissioner Rynders said he supports the CUP.
Chair Hogle referenced the condition to require a tree replacement plan, and said she doesn’t
think this should be required. The property is heavily wooded, and removing trees for the
structure will be promoting the health of the existing trees so that the woods are not so dense.
Rynders, second by Libby, moved to adopt PC Resolution No. 2022-15, Approving a
Conditional Use Permit for 23183 Meadowbrook Avenue, with an amendment to remove
Condition 5a. requiring a tree replacement plan. Motion carried 5-0 by roll call vote.
The recommendation to approve the CUP will be presented to the City Council at their meeting
on December 20, 2022.
PUBLIC HEARING: PRELIMINARY PLAT OF AN OPEN SPACE – PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT TO SUBDIVIDE 61-ACRES INTO 7 LOTS AT PARCEL ID
30.032.20.22.0004 (NEAR KEYSTONE AVENUE AND 199TH STREET).
GRANDEMOORE HOMES, APPLICANT. PC RESOLUTION NO. 2022-16
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December 6, 2022
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Applicant Doug Schultz and owners Larry and Kim Reese are proposing to subdivide a 61-acre
parcel into 7 lots for single family residential development, along with 2 outlots. The subdivision
would be developed as an open space conservation subdivision named Rolling Acres 61. The
Unified Development Code permits these developments within the newly created OS-PUD
overlay zone.
Planner Monson provided an evaluation of the request. The property is bordered by Keystone
Avenue (County Road 50) on the west, to which a new access road would connect and be
dedicated to the city. The land is currently agricultural farmland and undeveloped open space. As
a result of the OS-PUD rezone, the northeast portions of the site will remain undeveloped and the
southeast portions will be agricultural land. In exchange for the preservation of these lands, a
density bonus of three additional lots is permitted, allowing a total of seven lots. The OS-PUD
allows smaller lots than typically permitted in the base zoning districts. A table was provided in
the staff report listing the proposed lots and sizes:
Monson explained that Outlot B would have a treatment drainage pond on it and the applicant
proposes the city would own it. City staff noted that they do not have the capacity to maintain the
stormwater facility, and recommended a Homeowners Association be formed that would own
and maintain the pond.
The preliminary plat shows an access trail 30 feet in width from the cul-de-sac to Outlot A to the
east. The County Highway Department wrote that they are interested in how the city plans to
provide access to the parcels to the south and east of this property in the event they develop. Any
access that is ultimately approved for this proposed development should be compatible with any
future access to the south and east. Planner Monson recommended the easement be widened to
60 feet to accommodate a future road.
Evaluation of the request using PUD criteria from the UDC were outlined in the staff report.
Monson concluded with a recommendation to approve the preliminary plat with findings and
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eight conditions, including that the new road adhere to city requirements and Outlot B be owned
by an HOA. The findings and conditions were written into a resolution.
Chair Hogle opened the public hearing at 6:38 p.m.
Christopher Johnson, Scandia: Is this a local developer? Will the proposed homes be affordable
homes? What is the vision for this development? Mr. Johnson was told that representatives of the
application can answer the questions. What is the timeline to approve? Staff answered that the
statutory timing is 60-120 days for zoning applications. The application was received on
November 13, 2022.
Robert Zuzek: What is the purpose of the retention pond? Staff answered to collect runoff. Is the
30-foot driveway meant for long-term? Planner Monson said it will serve a future road
connection to access the outlot if it were to be subdivided in the future; this is a recommendation
option. Who owns green space? Staff answered the applicant; it is proposed that the farmland use
will continue. Commissioner Rynders asked if the outlot will be held in permanent conservancy?
Administrator Cammilleri said it will be a conservation property subject to the City allowing ag
use and open space. There will be no opportunity to construct buildings on the outlot, but
regulations could change in the future. The final terms will be based on the nature of the
conservation easement accepted by the city.
Unknown man: Will each lot have well and septic? Staff answered yes. Are trails proposed in the
development? Staff answered not at this time.
Applicant Doug Schultz, Grandemoore Homes from Blaine, MN: Stated that single family
homes will be built and is unsure of size or style. Stated the property owner will build on 3 of the
lots for their family. Said the intention for Outlot A is to leave as is in conservancy, and farming
the hayfield will continue. Affordability? Haven’t thought about a price range yet, but there will
be no minimums or set values for the homes. Lots range in size of 1.51 to 3.55 acres. The new
road will be paved and meet the city’s design specifications.
Michelle Storvick: Said that her home has natural gas, the other side of the area has propane.
Does the applicant know how the new homes will be served? Mr. Schultz answered that they are
not at a point yet to have an answer.
There were no further comments and Chair Hogle closed the hearing at 6:55 p.m.
Commissioner Fodor asked what is the size of the ag parcel. Staff answered Outlot A is 40 acres,
with the farmed portion approximately 10-15 acres. The owner will retain use of the ag land.
Commissioner Lubke asked if the road will be maintained by the city. Staff answered yes, the
road will be dedicated at project completion. The City Engineer will review the construction
phase, including the drainage structure in Outlot B.
Commissioner Rynders asked if the PUD agreement will specify lot sizes. Administrator
Cammilleri said a PUD lays out conditions for the site and its elements resulting in a site plan,
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December 6, 2022
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with specifications on the final plat. Cammilleri said a PUD allows for greater density and
deviation from regular setbacks.
Commissioner Rynders asked if use of Outlot A is negotiated with the applicant; can
development be prohibited in perpetuity? Cammilleri explained that the city’s comprehensive
plan is the guiding document for land use, and typically prohibiting development on an outlot
can be indefinite, but future councils could determine any future amendments to land use.
Commissioner Rynders asked if the 30-foot-wide access to Outlot A belongs to the city or the
development. Administrator Cammilleri said the recommendation from staff is a 60-foot width
for future road expansion if many years in the future there is a second phase. Can the city own
the access? Cammilleri said it should be defined under the easement, but the city does not need it
for anything more than to inspect Outlot A. There was a correction noted that the city road right-
of-way should be defined as 66 feet in width.
Commissioner Rynders said the conditions should be clear to have Outlot A placed in a
conservation easement agreement and the outlots be owned and maintained by an association.
Administrator Cammilleri said the city cannot force an HOA; having the developer request the
city accept the outlot is not an unusual request and is not unreasonable.
Commissioner Rynders asked about a condition to have compliance with the City Engineer’s
requirements. Administrator Cammilleri said this is adopted by reference under the code and
does cover this.
Chair Hogle asked the applicant if there is possible development of Outlot A in the future, does
he have any thoughts on extending 199th Street. Hogle said she would like to ensure this
development doesn’t create land locked property in the future, but noted there are access
possibilities from other directions.
Todd McLouth, Loucks Engineering: Stated that they do not own the land that 199th Street abuts
to, and have no intention to connect 199th Street. Administrator Cammilleri explained that this
was a request from the County Highway Department, but the developer does not have control of
this land.
Rynders moved to adopt PC Resolution 2022-16, Approving a Preliminary Plat for Rolling
Acres 61, with amendments:
1) The access road to Outlot A be increased to 66 feet in width.
2) Amend language to Condition #1 to state “…create 7 lots and 2 outlots…”
3) Outlot A be subject to a conservation easement.
4) Amend Condition #5 to state “Outlot A and Outlot B be owned and maintained by
an HOA”.
Chair Hogle said she has concerns that increasing the width of the access to Outlot A will narrow
Lots 1 and 4 that are adjacent to the access. Planner Monson said the developer would have to
shift the lot lines to accommodate a 66-foot-wide road.
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Administrator Cammilleri advised that the condition for an HOA not be included. The developer
is not proposing an HOA and the city cannot force this as there is no ordinance to require
establishment of an HOA. Commissioner Rynders said he wants to guarantee that the outlots do
not become a burden to the city.
Rynder’s motion failed for lack of a second.
Libby, second by Lubke, moved to adopt PC Resolution No. 2022-16, Approving a
Preliminary Plat for Rolling Acres 61, with amendments:
1) The access road to Outlot A be increased to 66 feet in width.
2) Amend language to Condition #1 to state “…create 7 lots and 2 outlots…”
Motion carried 5-0 roll call vote.
Hurlburt advised to clarify road standards. Staff pulled up the City’s Engineering Details and
confirmed that subdivision road standards designate road width at 60 feet. The Commissioners
were directed to reconsider the motion.
Libby, second by Rynders, moved to reconsider the motion. Motion carried 5-0.
The motion was back on the table for further discussion to amend the width of the access to 60-
feet.
Rynders, second by Libby, moved to approve an amendment to the motion. Motion carried
5-0.
Rynders, second by Fodor, moved to adopt PC Resolution No. 2022-16, Approving a
Preliminary Plat for Rolling Acres 61, with amendments:
1) The access road to Outlot A be increased to 60 feet in width.
2) Amend language to Condition #1 to state “…create 7 lots and 2 outlots…”
3) Outlot A be subject to a conservation easement.
Motion carried 5-0.
The recommendation to approve the Preliminary Plat for Rolling Acres 61 will be presented to
the City Council at their meeting on December 20, 2022.
PUBLIC HEARING: INTERIM USE PERMIT FOR ANIMAL DENSITY ABOVE THE
ALLOWED NUMBER AT 16315 209TH STREET NORTH. CORREY AND MICHELLE
LORENZ, APPLICANTS. PC RESOLUTION NO. 2022-17
Applicants Correy and Michelle Lorenz are proposing to have livestock above the density level
allowed for their property at 16315 209th Street. The property consists of 2 parcels, totaling 6.15
acres, and permitted to have 3 animal units based on the Unified Development Code
requirements for livestock operations allowing one animal unit per 2 acres (one beef cow equals
one animal unit). The code allows for a higher density of livestock being permitted through an
Interim Use Permit. The applicants are requesting up to 20 beef cattle.
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Planner Monson provided an evaluation of the request. The applicants provided a site plan
showing pasture area of approximately 3 acres, a portable shelter, fencing and a manure storage
area of 100 square feet. Guidelines from the MPCA recommend a manure management plan as
triggered by the applicant’s proposal to transfer the manure to another property owner to spread
on their fields as fertilizer, or sell to interested buyers. Monson noted that 20 cattle equal a
density of 3.25 animal units per acre. The cattle will be kept on rotational pasture areas; pastures
are not considered animal feedlots in the UDC, nor in state statute.
Planner Monson reviewed the request using criteria in the UDC general standards for a CUP or
IUP, which was provided in the staff report. Monson concluded with a recommendation to
approve the request for an IUP to allow up to 20 cattle on the property with finding and
conditions presented in a resolution. Conditions included a manure management plan, proper
fencing requirements, applicable watershed district permits be acquired, and termination of the
IUP if the property is sold, use discontinues, or permit violations occur.
Chair Hogle opened the public hearing at 7:30 p.m.
Ann Redig, 209th Street: Stated her support for the request, saying the owners have made
improvements to the property and maintain it well; she is confident the property will be kept up
well.
Nancy Kern, said she is the third property over from the Lorenz’s: How will they keep the smell
down? Manure smells bad and attracts flies, saying this is her main concern. 20 is too many for
this property. Will not enjoy sitting by their pool. If approved, make a requirement that they
control the smell.
Ann Redig: Said the Boesel farm to the north has cattle, and odor has never been a problem from
this site.
Applicants Correy and Michelle Lorenz: Said their goal is to produce organic meat for family,
friends, and the community. They have researched and communicated with experts at the MPCA
and Agriculture Extension Agents, and were told they are within their means for 20 cattle. They
have proposed a manure management plan and have support from their neighbors. Concerns of
manure runoff to the S. Croix River are not valid, saying they are 3000+ feet from the river, and
there are no streams through the property. Addressed the concern of smell and flies – neighbors
have cattle which are not producing smells or insects. From the written comments, Mr. Lorenz
addressed the decrease in property value – how would values change if they had one cow versus
20? Infringing on rights – if current cattle being kept on neighboring properties do not, how
would their cattle operation? Mr. Lorenz said the statements from the letters of opposition are not
factual. Mr. Lorenz said their property is zoned General Rural that can have cattle and can have
an IUP. Mr. Lorenz stated that they currently have 10 calves.
Chair Hogle asked if their application is an attempt to correct their keeping of 10 cattle. Were
they not aware they may be over the density limit for their property? Mr. Lorenz said they did
read the animal units chart in the development code and are within the allowed density with the
calves based on weight.
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Administrator Cammilleri stated that the pasture size seems small for the number of cattle
proposed. Will this be adequate for rotation? Mr. Lorenz said the cattle will be hay fed, and not
grass dependent. They will rotate between three fenced pastures.
Commissioner Fodor asked for a description of the permanent structure. Mr. Lorenz said the
shelter will not be permanent, but on skids to move around the property when rotating pastures,
providing shelter from the elements. Fodor said they should consider a larger structure for 20
head of cattle.
Commissioner Lubke asked how it was determined this is not a feedlot. Planner Monson
explained that this fits the state statute definition. A feedlot would trigger a CUP that runs with
the land and would not allow for an end date.
Mr. Lorenz said they will not have 20 animal units all at once, but will be rotating adults and
calves out as they are raised. It’s proposed to operate initially with 10 adults and 10 calves.
Nancy Kern: Said the Boesel farm is further from her house, so clearly cannot smell their
livestock. This property is much closer.
There were no further comments and Chair Hogle closed the hearing at 7:47 pm.
Commissioner Libby said 20 cattle seems a lot on this property, and asked for clarification of
animal units.
Commissioner Lubke said he is concerned that 20 is more than the land can support, but based
on the existing ordinance that does not designate maximum animals, there is not a basis to say
no. City Administrator Cammilleri said the IUP has conditions they must adhere to, including a
manure management plan. The IUP could be revoked if they are not adhering to the conditions
and they fail to follow through on the integrity of their plan. Cammilleri suggested the city
consider amending the ordinance in the future to designate maximum animal units.
Commissioner Rynders said this is allowing 3 times more than the allowance, but is this
allowance by right? Administrator Cammilleri said the existing ordinance does not specify a
maximum number of livestock; overstocking is not clearly addressed. For example, the
ordinance could indicate nothing over 10 animal units.
Chair Hogle said she has a concern on whether the conditions meet the criteria of #2 and #3.
(#2. The establishment, maintenance or operation of the conditional use will promote and
enhance the general public welfare and will not be detrimental to or endanger the public health,
safety, morals or comfort. #3. The conditional use will not be injurious to the use and enjoyment
of other property in the immediate vicinity for the purposes already permitted, nor substantially
diminish and impair property values or scenic views.)
Commissioner Rynders said 20 cattle seems like an overuse of the land. Could there be a risk of
contamination and enjoyment of property? Rynders said if the operation is not successful, the
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permit can be terminated. Could they consider a lower number of cattle? Could they start with 10
cattle and amend the IUP in the future to 20 if conditions are being managed.
Administrator Cammilleri said state guidance doesn’t specify, and there currently is no
mechanism to set a limit, but they can encourage a manageable level. Cammilleri said he is
hopeful the applicants will adjust to a number that they can manage as they run the operation.
Chair Hogle stated that there is currently no basis to set a specific number, and the IUP can be
revoked if they cannot meet the conditions.
Administrator Cammilleri recommended they allow the IUP for 5 years maximum.
Commissioner Libby asked Lorenz’s if they would consider fewer cattle. Mr. Lorenz said he has
talked to experts and researched livestock density, and determined that 20 is a reasonable
amount. The cattle will be in rotation of ages as they are raised to slaughter weight.
Administrator Cammilleri said this plan may be extremely ambitious, and could turn into a
feedlot, but hopefully it will work out and they will make appropriate changes to their operations
as needed, including reducing the herd.
Commissioner Rynders said the request doesn’t meet criteria #3, as there is a risk of excess
manure and insects may in injurious to the use and enjoyment of other property in the immediate
vicinity.
Chair Hogle said they don’t know what number would meet this criterion, and they need a basis
for a maximum number. Administrator Cammilleri said a future ordinance amendment could
address a maximum number, but they cannot consider it for the timing of this application.
Planner Monson recommended they set a sunset date for the IUP and in the meantime evaluate
the ordinance.
Administrator Cammilleri recommended they set the IUP for 2-3 years instead of a longer term.
Commissioner Libby suggested 3 years, to give them a fair chance for the cattle to mature and go
through growth cycles.
Lubke, second by Libby, moved to adopt PC Resolution No.2022-17, Approving an Interim
Use Permit for 16315 209th Street, with an amendment to Condition #5 to add language to
terminate the IUP 3 years from approval. Motion carried 4-1 by roll call vote, with
Rynders opposed.
The recommendation to approve the Interim Use Permit will be presented to the City Council at
their meeting on December 20, 2022.
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DISCUSSION ON SOLAR FARM MORATORIUM AND STUDY
Last month, it was determined that staff would draft a report outlining the findings on the solar
farm study for the Commissioners to review prior to sending it to the City Council. Planner
Monson presented the memo of findings based on the Commission’s review of other ordinances
and results of a community survey.
Chair Hogle suggested at some point the closing of Xcel’s coal-fired plant should be included, as
the utility company will be relying more heavily on solar and wind energy in the near future.
Hogle said this is pertinent information to consider for the report.
Administrator Cammilleri said that state statute places expansion of transformers on the solar
developers, and Xcel is seeking legislative change to this law. This issue is a challenge for the
community.
Staff asked if the Commissioners have any additional findings to add to the memo. Chair Hogle
said it looks pretty complete based on our discussions.
It was clarified that Commissioner Lubke’s suggestions to consider zoning near existing power
lines and along shoreland that are unnamed bodies of water fits into finding #2 of the memo.
Rynders, second by Libby, moved to submit the moratorium study to the City Council as
presented. Motion carried 5-0 by roll call vote.
Staff recommended the report go to a future Council Work Session. There was consensus by the
Commissioners for this recommendation.
DISCUSSION ON THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PLAN REPORT TO THE CITY
COUNCIL
Administrator Cammilleri explained the requirement that the Planning Commission must
determine if the 2023-2032 Capital Improvement Plan is consistent with the City’s current
Comprehensive Plan. Staff recommended the Commission endorse the CIP. If found to be
inconsistent, they would need findings to support the inconsistency.
Commissioner Fodor asked how an inflation rate was applied to future projects. Cammilleri said
inflation is forecast at 4% each year, and numbers are reworked as the year gets closer. This is
the standard best practice used in capital budgets. Fodor noted how inflation can affect the entire
scale. Cammilleri agreed, but said the Commission is not tasked with vetting the financial
worthiness of the projections, but to evaluate the CIP in relation to the Comprehensive Plan.
Rynders, second by Fodor, moved that the Capital Budget presented is consistent with the
City’s Comprehensive Plan. Motion carried 5-0 by roll call vote.
CITY COUNCIL UPDATES
Planner Monson reported the following actions by the City Council at their meeting on
November 15, 2022.
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• The Paulsen Variance was tabled for additional information, then approved at the
Council’s special meeting on November 22nd.
FUTURE ITEMS: Next meeting – January 3, 2023
Staff recommended that if no applications are scheduled for public hearings on January 3, 2023,
the meeting will be cancelled.
ADJOURNMENT
Lubke, second by Rynders, moved to adjourn the meeting. Motion carried 5-0.
The meeting adjourned at 8:57 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Brenda Eklund
City Clerk